A Conversation with Mark Boswell, Amsterdam May 2024
bart plantenga
[Mark Boswell, found footage filmmaker, & I talked in an electric fog of dopamine & memory – Paris, NY, Amsterdam, South Beach, Osnabrück, Heidelberg … a list of sorts]:
We discussed: films • Apocalyse Now • whistling in films like Twisted Nerve • sinister scenes • NYC • poverty normalized • Amsterdam • 1989 Europe Against The Current Festival • Godard • Matmos • Tricky • Bjork • Karin DB & her work overalls, her stoic determination, her coming on to both of us – simultaneously • her stolid intimidating demeanor • hitchhiking from Paris • the driver who wanted to see our karate kicks • did we wear underwear • the rot-gut wine we drank in Paris • called by the bartender in the Paris bar, the Pik Clops “The Americans Who Drink The Wine That Burns A Hole In The Sole of One’s Shoes” – in French • The Sacre Coeur & Place du Tetre where among many locations we negotiated our way through identity with words that crystallized observations • the legendary readings (in our minds) • were our antics a way of processing our cynicism to prevent it from eating our souls? • wandering • flaneur • low-end jobs • cab-driving • the transvestites or cross-dressers running their hands through my hair from the late-night cab, metal confessional • Domino’s pizza delivery man • factory/foundry work – like working in a coalmine above ground • the plunge into the ravine taking a shortcut delivering pizza • Mark not allowed to change, delivering pizza wet • memory & its loss & rediscovering it again robust & full-fledged • Stockhausen • Wuppertal • Osnabrück: “The mÖma Show & The Villa Occupation: A Celebration of the Temporary Museum of Memory Archeology” • Paloma • Artez • graduation • the praise that brought tears to me & Nina’s eyes • Mark confesses that me just describing the graduation ceremony was making him weepy-eyed • the canals & the magnet fishermen pulling up shopping carts & abandoned bikes • & we agree we’d be doing that if we were young now in Amsterdam • the TV shows as stepping stones to an ulterior reality • infrastructure everywhere explained as a semiotics to our relative wellbeing • I would come back as an urban planner • bikes represent freedom • Dig•Scape mixing • all you can eat restaurants • diners eating selves into disability & diabetes • seeing the obese fight the disabled for the few electric carts in Walmart • style versus conformity • ripoffs of those monetizing hope • gaslighting • running 70 miles per week even at night • could have been hanging out with girls • Bill Walton [RIP] • Kareem Abdul Jabbar • Pistol Pete Maravich & his dribbling pioneering • the 3-pointer is negative • Not Just Bikes • the bike garage as tourist site • “One must go beyond logic in order to experience what is large inside the small.” Gaston Bachelard • The Poetics of Space • the precocious young not wanting to make the same mistakes again • unfairly condemned by our generation • ageism is a disease promoted by advertising • vintage clothes • Paloma’s group do not buy disposable new clothes • recycle • upcycle • performance shyness • Gaston Bachelard, The Poetics of Reverie: ““The reveries of two solitary souls prepare the sweetness of loving.” – think of Nina in Prague & the mail service • can’t believe she is our daughter when we see her on stage • I though my shyness was something everyone had • learning later that some people actually liked getting up in front of people • deep breathing recommended • to prevent shallow breathing that leads to lightheadedness & inability to project • readings as necessary evil with only a periodic ecstatic moment • partners passive aggressive silence like wife Cheryl [Hines] • wife of JFK • Jr in Curb Your Enthusiasm & our partners • magnet fishing for dumped iron like bikes • shopping carts • knives • shovels left on bridges as plunder or booty • the sun setting, warming on the bricks of buildings that seem to be held together like family is tied by DNA • Yoko Ono @ Hilton Bed-In • Fluxus • the Fall: SONGS Totally Wired • Bill is Dead • Garden • Living Too Late • Mark E. Smith is a poetic wonder • yodel videos – the Fugs • Slim Pickens • Tarzan • The 3 Stooges [yodel & plumbing scenes] • Little Rascals [Alfalfa yodeling Spanky’s little brother to sleep • video removed by Youtube] • tomato plants • favorite pizza toppings inc. artichoke • asparagus • portobello • Eggnostic Shellshock videos mindboggling good • Taylor Swift gives money away but takes private jets • Walculla Springs • alligators • Florida’s insane residents • crime shows inevitably go to Florida for colorful crime stories • Florida theory: where grifters & aimless end up to disappear in a new world • The status-conscious in Orlando • fake everything becomes real – see Baudrillard • Pynchon “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers” • The underground pseudo docu • Larry David tucked in golf shirt & pants • the Metro & the museum of excavated objects viewable on the up & down escalators • 7 May 2024 @ the EYE museum. view at & from is glorious • caddying • streetsweeper the nostalgia of the ferry • the view of the Silo & the now new tall white buildings where I once lived in a trailer sitting on stilts above the IJ River [not an actual river, btw] • public transit every 6 minutes no need to run • the beautiful women of Amsterdam • their sturdy smoothed revealed legs riding bikes in skirts • partners dressing us • going to department stores like the V&D early at 10 AM on a Tuesday to shop for pants in an empty store • heaven is learning when to go grocery shopping on a Tuesday morn • we hate shopping • museum passes for over 450 museums saves us • pants must be tapered just right & must dangle perfectly just above the shoe • money-corruption-politics satire reality • long walks alone & together during COVID • photos in the Vermeer gift shop in Den Haag • watch out for old men on mini stunt bikes offering investment advice • plumbing disasters • cancel culture hypocrisy of foundations guarding their dead artist investments by going totally proprietary: John Cage Foundation suing a lesser known experimental musician • Mimetic Mute for inc. a version of 4’33” on his album but is now in the Cage Foundation online catalog • Evelyn Kreutzer who wanted to use some Nam June Paik video material but had to pay dearly for it by the Paik Foundation • which is of course ironic & hypocritical since Paik’s career rests on the appropriation of found footage • Sunview Luncheonette • David First • the shopping mall as liminal state of mind • baseball great in the dream era of quiet, slow • baseball stadiums different sizes unlike any other sport field • we were not great hitters • my long-distance-runner arms skinny • but could beat out infield hits • steal bases • Joe Pepitone • the mess of modern multimedia max stimuli stadiums • watching an obese family eat 2 full meals during a 9 inning game • Paloma learning how to keep score from Yankee fan Martin [RIP] • the crack of the bat in silence is iconic • we were afraid to hit the ball because how ball to bat hurt our hands • in summer we played basketball in the hothot sun for hours on the court by the [Thorne Street] pool, Horseheads • when we met in Paris, late 88 @ a reading @ the American Church • the lighter lit poem going up in flames meant I had to read faster & faster • Kirk, Brad, Audrey [good photog, beautiful], Bernard, Brad, Norman • where to go: me & Nina going to small cities, long weekends • where will Mark & Susanne live – not NY, maybe Sicily, maybe Portugal or Spain, coastal, near beach, warm • our day trip to Castricum renting bikes, riding through the magical dunes to the beach • the beach as topographical metaphor for soul or meditation • The protected natural heritage, the Dutch Coast • the Delta Works • beer – European, less gimmicky • Eurovision insanity, a guilty pleasure since 1997, watch usually with Paloma, Joop Klein • old cars, have only owned 1 car, Green Hornet • cross country 3x, 2x in old Datsuns • Mark’s Cadillac tearing under the El where the chase scenes from the French Connection were shot, Paloma excited-fascinated • old Cadillac used to do an impromptu photoshoot & then towed by the City • time in Prague • Nina • Biden’s floating red line • the floating pier in Gaza sinking as a symptom or metaphor for failed empire • Rafa • Big Daddy Burl Ives in Tennessee Williams Cat on a Hot Tin Roof is how I imagine Mark’s father but he was not huge at all but strong, lived to almost 100 • got blow jobs from the maid • went to a funeral of a black friend where he was listed as plantation owner • my father tears down my antiwar & protest posters & punches me in the shoulder, apologizes the next day & gives me $10 to buy new posters [1971] at the Mall • cats crazy behavior • immersion, different forms – beach, film … • the Earwurms at OCCII & Nieuwe Anita • fiction outstripped by insane reality • self-doubt curse of artist • Brad floods lost all of his negatives & fave books • my demented mother threw out all of the home movies my father shot growing up & all of the videos as well, even though demented, I hated her for it • yodel of Thijs van Leer • English versus Dutch • ease with which Mark picks up languages – Swedish, Russian, Spanish, Italian… • writing rejection, what’s the use • diet & influence on the brain • ultra-processed foods are built-in addictive by design • day of Mark’s reading he wore his auteur outfit – Chelsea boots, black pants & jacket & white turtleneck • interesting how certain directors attain a look & keep it as a signature through their entire career – Godard, Jarmusch • Maria Abramowicz naked people entrance to the exhibit in Stedelijk • Italian neoclassical films: Bicycle Thief, De Sica, Rosellini • midgets appear & in my cab short story • extras in movies, Ricky Gervais • one step further, we set out to be background diners in an episode of First Dates & succeeded • hidden cameras everywhere • light important in NL – big windows like open arms to embrace every bit of sun • Hitchcock & Truffaut • the falling-apart seats in the Angelika Theatre • reminds us of the creaky old seat in Cinema 80 during the silent scenes • Susanne as tour guide for entitled middle class foreign [German / English] tourists cross-country • hitchhiking adventures • experience vs writing classes [DIY vs Masters] – or a bit of both • oddjobs • from the ferry I point to the Westerdoksdijk legal squat I lived in that is long gone, giving way to modern white behemoth buildings – not totally negative • rotary phones • long-distance love • Southern France • visit Black Sifichi & Roma, hopefully with Paloma …
[this conversation rambled along not in this particular order but this is how it returned to my mind the Catacombs of Palermo where the skeletons wear the uniforms of their former vocations • me & Paloma singing crazily along to Christian & mainstream rock doing 85 on an Arizona highway • There’s the Silo – now not-cheap housing, in the past a squat + restaurant & on the top, Radio Patapoe – nowhere to piss so either hold it or piss in buckets & jars & bottles in the rickety stairway – don’t look down • friends who’ve died – afraid to make list • 1993, playing basketball on the E. 11th Street court late at night together, a guy screaming at his dog • the late night car alarms communicating with one another like birds • CYO basketball – Nina played, we did too as a hippie anarcho team call the Wonderful Wonder Warthogs [Gilbert Shelton comic book character – who I met in a comic book store in Paris in 1989, near where he lived] • underhand free throws was a thing • we played a totally unconventional game of get the ball dribble & shoot or just passing throughout the game & taking VERY few shots, we won one game 100-23 despite none of caring or even being great • Zone of Interest & the fascism that feeds on ignoring the inconvenient • fascism of the frightened, how normal people fall to the right when their lifestyles are even slightly threatened as if the right will come to their aid • alligators & weird Florida stories like the guy who tried to have sex with an alligator & other bizarre tales of bestiality • Bestiality was legal until 2012 in Florida, & some guy named Eric was one of the first to be prosecuted after pics of him having sex with his girl friend’s 3 legged dog were found on his cell phone. But he won’t be charged because oral sex with animals is still legal in Florida • a girl friend let her cat perform cunnilingus on her in Michigan • is that legal & what about humans performing oral sex on animals? • Roaming flaneur getting lost in a good way in foreign destinations • cheap-built McMansions built in classic styles that project desperate status • smell of gasoline – a Proustian moment: “When nothing else subsists from the past, after the people are dead … the smell & taste of things remain poised a long time, like souls … bearing resiliently, on tiny & almost impalpable drops of their essence, the immense edifice of memory …” • extreme sports to override the boredom of those who have grown-up with constant external stimulation often paid for in the form of bungy-jumping mania where with each successive need to artificially pump up one’s system requires a greater infusion of dopamine like heroin • the bored are doomed to search endlessly for quick fixes never knowing the slower pleasures of a meadow, book or artwork • seeking likes so encouraged to ever greater excesses leading to TikTok selfie deaths • The Valley building in Amsterdam Zuid, dramatic hanging gardens & craggy dramatic architecture with access to a view of the sprawling sports fields – a meditative quality • E-bikes & speed limits • Ken Kesey, the Magic bus as seen in my found footage video of the Fugs Yodeling Yippie • Sometimes a Great Notion, a general immersion in the memory of place – the contested forests of the Pacific Northwest • The wacked Jack Nicholson scenes in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest & The Last Detail • the betrayal of friendship by cocaine addicts & junkies • swimming pools guide Mark’s life somewhat • loved the pool in Dobbs Ferry but he took me twice to McCarren Park pool, packed with people although in the lanes there was room to swim • there were confrontations between rival groups yelling • I go swimming with Nina & Iris in the lovely Mirandabad pool, near home where the sun when it shines streams in through the roof full of skylight • I think of Cheever’s The Swimmer, a guy [Burt Lancaster] tries to swim home across the county via the Westchester[?] Swimming pools. Mark E. Smith on stage, late, fans super angry throwing bottles, he dragging his rollybag straight from the airport & that sinister smile & mumbled poetics • many friends don’t drink any more – we drink less, a moderation that seems determined by bodily circumstance & spiritual needs changing • learned my great uncle was an adventurous sea captain & world news when he was commissioned to deliver aid to the new state of Israel in 1948, captaining a ship • Eastern NL like Arnhem have a distinct German architectural influence & its hilly • where Paloma’s Artez mentor spoke so glowingly for so long it brought tears to our eyes – & Mark admits, his eyes too • how to unlock genius [unconsciously?] • campfires are an immersive experience & fireflies too • campfires when camping, the smell of smoke & melting marshmallows • The Andy Griffith whistling song • an imaginary bucolic small town desire • early crushes – I Dream of Jeannie [Barbara Eden] vs me & Gilligan’s Island [Tina Louise (Ginger) & Dawn Wells (Maryanne) • the females on Lost in Space [Judy Robinson played by Norwegian-American Marta Kristen & Penny [Angela Cartwright] • Woodstock where Nina grew up, beautiful countryside, now unaffordable • interviewed Ed Sanders as first for yodel book one • The Golden Notebook bookstore • the lovely Hudson Valley dreaming in the train on the sunny westside • Pina & the many dinners • cleaning out the attic with Mark, we wearing old tee-shirts as dust masks over lower face • Novo Kino • forgetfulness as accepted • archives, Amsterdam world’s largest civic archive • great place to anchor & conjoin today with yesterday • the fake cause of coffee fanatics • tech nerds • gearheads who reduce experience to purchasing the right stuff for one’s vehicle • disappearing in the Florida swamps • peril of alligators growing • entering people space • forgetfulness • biking in the future • duvets vs sheets – Nina in full pyjamas, me in underwear • finding an apartment for Paloma • Earwurms, the videos • off color jokes • Jerry Seinfeld not that funny, Larry David the genius • Smokey & the Bandit • blackface & black performers performing in blackface impersonating white people imitating black people • Audrey going cross country with her, now has 3 kids • Peter Green sublime blues, “Albatross” one of best pop songs of all time & ambient avant la lettre • Trabant car – punk mohawk version in Art Zuid 2023 • early retirement for heavy workers like the paving stone [klinkers] bricklayers • Colonel Klink & the conundrum of Hogan’s Heroes, comedy about a prison camp, un-pc humor • Biking in NY – survivors transformed into heroes while in Amsterdam almost everyone bikes as a norm like breathing • mark: American tourist overheard commenting to another – I didn’t know Anne Frank was dead… • Floridians in hiding, on run like my ex-sister-in-law who fled grifting incidents in Upstate NY • Were in Germany for medical system care • hysterectomy • blood loss abated • 5 organic food stores in the neighborhood • 2 Live Crew “Ahh! Me so horny!” • reminds us of “Bam I had an Orgasm” Sifichi mix • & Rick James “Let’s fire up this funk” • On-U Sound seeing/meeting Gary Clail “Beef! How low can we go / hear the cattle cry.” • frivolous heedless air travel • COVID, scary in NY like some John Carpenter dystopia film • broken headphones cheapos • the candy we ate as kids – hard to imagine [Juicyfruits, Juju beads, 3 Musketeers, Milky Way, CheezPuffs • Good & Plenty • Ways of Seeing John Berger: “You painted a naked woman because you enjoyed looking at her, put a mirror in her hand & you called the painting “Vanity,” thus morally condemning the woman whose nakedness you had depicted for you own pleasure.” Nina Ascoly: hip op, no paperwork, no cost • Anton Corbijn the stark real faces more real than real at the Cobra • housing sadness all over: SF, Paris, NY, Amsterdam, Florida • magic of synchronicity or meaning-added to coincidence helps cement the raison d’etre for friendships • Heidelberg experimental festival. I read late, Boswell didn’t even get to read because people like La Loca read for an extremely long time – need a moderator • During the evening we sat next to Robert Bly & wife. He nitpicked Jackson Maclow, taking him down a peg • salt water, beaches, the smell of suntan lotion – an elixir • creativity is an amalgam potpourri, patchwork mishmash of borrowed flourished & citations, pastiched all words in dictionary – with respect to Barthes • haircut strategy • the pain of having my haircut laughed at by kids in JR high • I do my own with clippers bought at Blokker • have a routine tactic & it seems to work • susanne too nervous to cut mark’s hair any more • the loud flamboyant American befriended at the bar in the Pik Clops who bought us several rounds of drinks & then departed without paying, we counting centimes & then me & Kirk seeing him several weeks later • Negativland [U2] & plunderphonics • we agree we love blueberries & know it’s a superfood meaning they help lower blood pressure, prevent heart disease, improve memory, aid in recovering from movement injury …
bart plantenga is the author of novels Beer Mystic, Radio Activity Kills, & Ocean GroOve, short story collections Wiggling Wishbone, The Confusion Spandex, novella Spermatagonia: The Isle of Man & memoirs: Paris Scratch & NY Sin Phoney in Face Flat Minor. He’s a founding member of NYC writer group, The Unbearables. His books YODEL-AY-EE- OOOO: The Secret History of Yodeling Around the World & Yodel in HiFi & CD Rough Guide to Yodel have created a misunderstanding that he’s the world’s foremost yodel expert. He produces the Dig•Scape & iMMERSE! podcasts & as a DJ has produced Wreck This Mess in NYC, Paris & Amsterdam since forever. He’s a regular contributor to the International Times of London. He lives in Amsterdam.